We have just had a woman from Endesa knock on the front door and I'm a bit confused. She was from the peninsula and to be honest I couldn't understand a word she said. So I was dependent on the wife, who due to partial deafness doesn't hear or understand everything she's told. What she managed to understand is that due to Endeas losing so many customers they have decided to change the contracts.
It seems that like many other Spanish utility's they have been ripping people off. Just check your last bill and see if you have 'PRODUCT PVPC' written on it any where. Ours is under the bold letters 'Facturacion' Now if you have that it would seem that every couple of months there is an automatic price hike. According to the woman nobody knows about it. I can only assume its a bit like the 'Calusa Suelo'? Its not much of a hike but its there non the less.
So this woman got the wife to sign a new contract, or I should say an amendment to the old contract enabling Endeas to cancel the 'Product PVPC' And stop the automatic hikes.
She also changed our 'potencia' which at the moment stands at 5.52kW. She reduced it to 4.40kW a possible saving of €10 a month. Now it would seem that the people who are presently going round door to door are only targeting people who pay by standing order, and if you miss the knock on the door that's it!
I was deeply suspicious so got the wife to ring Endeas and they confirmed that the woman was from them and its all above board. But why do I have a very bad feeling :undecided:
Sorry to be very vague and short on detail but you now know as much as I do. Anyone heard of this?
The thing that would worry me is the reduction of the potencia. 5.5kw is barely enough for modern living, and to reduce it down seems strange, but not knowing how they administer this, it could mean nothing. But I have a sneaking suspicion that if you exceed the new rating, your unit costs will increase out of all proportion. Just my normal sceptical self :017:
Quote from: Pelinor on Fri 7 Mar 2014, 18:31She also changed our 'potencia' which at the moment stands at 5.52kW. She reduced it to 4.40kW a possible saving of €10 a month.
Looking at our most recent bill, we paid €33 for our 5.52kW potencia for two months. That means around €17 per month. But this charge is proportional to number of kW used during that month (or previous month?) so it could be greater if you use more. Although I don't know how much the 4.40 kW tariff is, it was not much less than the 5.52, because I remember when starting the contract there was not much in it. On that basis, I suspect the "possible saving of €10 a month" is only true if you run your own dry cleaning business or aluminium smelting plant. It's bloody typical that the "up to" represents a theoretical maximum which nobody achieves, but is not actually a lie.
I agree with Del that 4.4 kW is not very much. neither is 5.52. I think our oven uses 3 kW and the tumble drier uses at least 2kW, the microwave almost 1kW, the washing machine at least that. On occasions we must have exceeded our 5.52, but I have no idea what happens if you do. Presumably there are mains fuses which blow, but ours never have.
I think Del is right to be cynical about this change, but I cannot see how Endesa could possibly change the kW tariff depending on whether you are using more than your "potencia". The meter records current, not cost. It does not record the kW used at the time.
The only way they could get you is if during a 2-month period your consumption is such that they could show that you were using (say) 5 kW for 24 hours every day when your potencia was only 4.4. But nobody could ever manage that. Your bill could be astronomical but still using less than 4.4 all the time. The consumption is typically very low (fridge, computer, TV) with spikes when you use the dishwasher, oven, etc, but I can't see how they could monitor this.
I'm now mystified about this PVPC ... apparently it used to be TUR ... and it doesn't seem related to a "price hike" but is a voluntary tariff (of up to 3.5???) ...
HERE (https://www.endesaonline.com/ES/negocios/teguia/asesoramientotarifas/tarifas+reguladas/tarifas_reguladas/index.asp) is the explanation.. Furthermore, from a PVPC link on the left, there is then THIS (https://www.endesaonline.com/ES/negocios/teguia/asesoramientotarifas/tarifas+reguladas/index.asp).
The "voluntario" bit seems to relate to the fact that consumers may now choose their supplier. Can anyone explain WTF they are talking about??
Quote from: PeriklesThe only way they could get you is if during a 2-month period your consumption is such that they could show that you were using (say) 5 kW for 24 hours every day when your potencia was only 4.4. But nobody could ever manage that. Your bill could be astronomical but still using less than 4.4 all the time. The consumption is typically very low (fridge, computer, TV) with spikes when you use the dishwasher, oven, etc, but I can't see how they could monitor this
Maybe they fit a new meter. Are "Smart meters" being fitted yet in Tenerife ? (linked by GSM phone network). If so these submit a reading every thirty minutes.
yes, we've got one that a satellite type phone thing is used with ...
It seems a bit better explained HERE (http://cincodias.com/cincodias/2014/01/30/empresas/1391110125_006470.html) :undecided:
it's still gobbledegook ... my brain doesn't understand info presented like this. WTF are they saying?? :017:
Dunno, it had the same effect on me too :giggle:
Quote from: Janet on Sat 8 Mar 2014, 08:57
yes, we've got one that a satellite type phone thing is used with ...
Er - not what Del meant. The bloke reading the meter by eye had a GPS thingy to tell him where he was, to identify the meter being read. The genius then asked me whether there were any other electricity meters to be read further up our road (which peters out into hills). He could probably have seen the electricity cables above his head leading up the hill to where there must obviously be another meter, but he couldn't make the connection. (Shocking pun, but it has potential)
Well as far as I'm concerned its a con! I started thinking and if Endesa were canvassing only people who pay by standing order they would come with all the information they needed, not just knock on doors, or one would hope so? Plus if they were being so generous to the customer by reduction the bills they would just do it with great fanfare on the TV. So somewhere we will be getting stiffed for something.
No company changes a contact for the benefit of the customer. So first thing on Monday morning the wife's phoning Endesa and cancelling what ever she signed for.
In the mean time shes going to see her brother who used to work for Unelco to see if he can give a better explanation as to what its all about.
I am coming in late to this thread. A few weeks back, we had a flier from the benevolent souls from the ayuntamiento telling us how we could save on our electricity bill. It involved contacting the supplier and getting the potencia changed down. Did you get that too Janet and Perikles?
We didn't consider it for a moment for the same reasons Perikles outlined. Plus OH has all his radios and other equipment to run.
no, I don't think we got a flyer like that ... or if we did Perikles has binned it without reference ...
Well the wife went to the offices today and cancelled the new contract. Still a bit confused. From what I managed to understand it was all about insurance cover for the wiring in the house if anything went wrong. The cost was €3 a month but at no point did they say exactly what it covered us for, even when asked! All they seemed to be interested in was pushing some 10% discount, if we signed up for the insurance. But how long the discount went on for or what it was off, the bill, the potencia, the new insurance God only knows. All very vague and unprofessional.
Within ten min of returning home the phone went and it was Endesa questioning why we cancelled, it nearly ended up in a shouting match!!
so nothing to do with the service, and far from a saving, you get to pay extra for insurance that you didn't want, probably don't need, and didn't understand because they were incapable of explaining it to you other than telling you it was a 10% discount on money you didn't need to spend anyway ...
yeah, that sounds about right.
FFS I now say NO to everything, and the more they press, the louder I say it.
Quote from: JanetFFS I now say NO to everything, and the more they press, the louder I say it.
Do you know something!!! I had so many girlfriends like that in my early days :021:
:nono:
:laugh:
Quote from: Delderek on Mon 10 Mar 2014, 17:07
Do you know something!!! I had so many girlfriends like that in my early days :021:
Wow, and you had to fight them off like that? You must've been one hot dude.
Quote from: Myrtle Hogan-Lance on Mon 10 Mar 2014, 17:15
Wow, and you had to fight them off like that? You must've been one hot dude.
I was they wasn't, You had to buy engagement rings in those days to get anywhere. I got a good discount at the local jewellers for being a regular customer. :whistle:
Quote from: Janet on Mon 10 Mar 2014, 17:00
FFS I now say NO to everything, and the more they press, the louder I say it.
Yep that's the only way to be. I think the wife's parting shot to Endeas was along the lines of 'Look is Endeas a charity? No it isn't, so your only going to do whats best for Endesa and not me' Well it was a tad more colourful than that, but I don't think they'll be bothering us for a while.
That's our Mrs G!
Don't know whether THIS (http://moneysaverspain.com/electricity-bill-spain/) helps clarify anything, but thought I'd post the link in case it's helpful all the same.
As to how they administer this intrigued me I asked the question on another forum knowing an expert electrical guy would have the answer. And yes it appears they fit a smart meter that logs the consumption every second, which then cuts off the supply if you exceed your tariff, but seems not immediately, as the unit rate increases by about two and a half times your contract rate.
The advice given : don't get conned with the 4.4 tariff.
Edit: seems it doesn't cut off till you reach the old 5.5 limit but of course you are paying a lot more for using an extra kw.
Quote from: Delderek on Tue 11 Mar 2014, 20:25
The advice given : don't get conned with the 4.4 tariff.
These days, I think the normal 5.4 tariff is probably often too little and that this can be exceeded on a regular basis. If this is the case and smart meters are installed everywhere, I can see people having unpleasant increases in electricity bills because they don't know it's costing them a fortune when, say, the tumble drier and dishwasher are both being used at the same time. Is there an easy way to monitor this? Myrtle - what says OH?
Quote from: Periklēs on Wed 12 Mar 2014, 07:08
These days, I think the normal 5.4 tariff is probably often too little and that this can be exceeded on a regular basis. If this is the case and smart meters are installed everywhere, I can see people having unpleasant increases in electricity bills because they don't know it's costing them a fortune when, say, the tumble drier and dishwasher are both being used at the same time. Is there an easy way to monitor this? Myrtle - what says OH?
If they follow what is being done in the UK, you can see your consumption on your computer. Or wireless instruments available for about 20 quid where you clip a transmitter around the main input cable and a small led receiver is placed where you want it. Giving you cost/consumption/carbon footprint etc.
The guy that gave the info on the smart meter system also stated, that when designing new systems they now advise using the 9.2kw tariff in premises with no gas.
Yes, agree with Delderek. Of course at our house there are all kinds of meters and stuff which he uses to measure things.
We were talking about this today and the part which interests me the most is the cut-off for exceeding your tariff. When does it cut it off? For how long? Don't you get any chance to correct things before you get zapped? What about people who require electricity for medical reasons?
And I wonder if all this means I will have to start doing the laundry in the middle of the night.
Quote from: Myrtle Hogan-Lance on Wed 12 Mar 2014, 13:45What about people who require electricity for medical reasons?
Interesting legal question. If they cut my leccy off when I need my CPAP machine (OK - it only needs 60 watts but Janet might be doing some arc welding at the same time) can I sue them?
Getting really confused by all this now........... well I was before to be truthful! :017: Anyway I always thought if you were to over load the system the circuit breakers tripped?
Quote from: Pelinor on Wed 12 Mar 2014, 14:57
Getting really confused by all this now........... well I was before to be truthful! :017: Anyway I always thought if you were to over load the system the circuit breakers tripped?
Yes, they do, but they are not very exact about when they do it. A mains fuse might be rated at 25 amps but might only trip at 30 or 40. It is a mechanical device which ages and starts to trip at lower currents, so they set them a bit high to start with. Feel free to contradict, anybody, I'm no expert.
You may find the video on this site of interest:
http://9plusonline.com/electrician-tenerife-elec-co-fully-legal-electic-installations-and-projects-in-tenerife/
9+ is Mark Fradley, a great guy and an excellent electrician.