(http://www.janetanscombe.com/wp-content/uploads/eu-elections.jpg)
EU citizens have the right to vote in their European country of residence. If you are a European citizen you have the right (and many would say duty) to vote in the upcoming European elections which are taking place on May 25th, 2014 in Spain. But if you're not registered, your voice won't be heard.
You might think that what happens in Brussels or Strasbourg is too far away to affect us here in the Canary Islands, but nothing could be further from the truth. Increasingly, what happens at European level has a direct impact on our daily lives, particularly given the Canary Island's status as an 'ultra-peripheral region' and every vote counts.
The closing date for inclusion on the electoral register is 30 January.
Who can vote?
Citizens from the following countries, resident here in Tenerife, are eligible to vote: Germany, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Cyprus, Denmark, Slovenia, Estonia, Finland, France, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Lithuania, Latvia, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, the UK, the Czech Republic, Romania and Sweden.
However, to make sure you can exercise your vote you must be registered on the electoral census and the residents register – the 'Padrón'– and have indicated your wish to vote in Spain in these European elections – this is to ensure that you don't vote in more than one country. (Elections are taking place over a number of days, so theoretically it would be possible). The Electoral Census office have sent letters to many European citizens who have not already signed on the electoral census. If you have received such a letter all you have to do is sign it and return it to the indicated address.
However, if you haven't received any communication but would like to vote, call into your local Town Hall and say you wish to register on the electoral census for the right to vote. You must be on the municipal residents register (Padrón) to do so. If you are not on the Padrón you can do this at the same time. You will need to bring your passport and your resident's certificate ensuring that your address is up to date. There will also be a short period of time, still to be determined, after the closing date, when you can check that your details have been properly registered.
As times are changing, so are we. Since the last European elections, the rules of the game have changed. The European Parliament now has more power, both to set the political direction of Europe and over the day-to-day decisions which affect us all. A more powerful European Parliament means more influence for everyone, more ability to deal with our problems, more ability to change what needs changing, more assertiveness to conserve what we want to keep. Your vote really counts, so make sure you have it, and use it. JA (http://www.janetanscombe.com/news/your-voice-in-europe-your-vote-on-may-25th.html)
Do us a favour love :toothygrin: . . . and use your influencial network to stress that being registered will also allow you to vote in the local council elections.
I am thinking particularly of Arona where I may well be participating next time. There are enough foreigners to make a massive difference in the twisted voting system they use here.
It is also worth pointing out that in Arona you don't even have to go to the town hall, this can be done at the culture centre (side exit) in Los Cristianos.
If we can get enough residents registered we can change things considerably.
:Woot_Emoticon:
you betcha!! :great:
I won't reopen the post today, but I'll have an update shortly explaining the system for those who've only been here 15 years and haven't had a chance to become familiar with it yet ...
At that point, I'll headline it with WANNA FUCK UP ARONA?? :D
We received our registration forms in the post and registered online.
How do I find out who is running and who I should vote for? Since I know none of them I am taking recommendations if offered.
I am also interested in voting in local elections so look forward to Janet's post on that.
I suspect that only a hand full of people in the Canaries know they have an MEP let alone who they are or what they do. The Brussels mafia is a subject close to my heart. Save to say I will be voting for any Euroskeptic MEP or party. Not that I wish to leave the EU, and that goes for the UK as well, but to give the EU a poke in the eye and send it a message that not everyone wants to be in the United States of Europe. So it should wind its neck in a bit!
I have no wish to be governed by second rate and failed politicions and unelected Commissioners sitting in a foreign country. I have no wish to be ruled by 751 MEPS of which only 73 are supposed to represent British interests. In short I have no problem for what I voted for all those years ago but a massive problem with what we have now.
This post has been brought to you by the right honorable member for Arafo :tiphat:
Just had a quick look and it seems to be a member of the PP Gabriel Mato Adrover. I had to laugh it would seem that last year he was part of a committee over seeing Corruption organized Crime and money laundering! A Spanish PP member doing that who would believe it :whistle:
So do I vote for Gabriel Mato Adrover or not?
Well here's a problem. It would appear that there is no Euroskeptic party or even movement in Spain! There is nothing like UKIP or the French 'National Front' or even the Dutch one who's name escapes me. Now this is in stark contrast to Wiki which states that Spain is the 3rd most Euroskeptic country behind the UK and Greece? I would add that there is a small movement in the Catalan country
This brings me to another problem with the EU. There is so much crap and missinformation out there it's almost impossible to form an opinion based on fact. A problem I have come across a number of times.
So what to do, vote for someone that I don't want to. spoil the vote (This may be a problem as I may be the only vote cast in the village) or stay at home and not vote which goes against the grain. Whats a girl to do??
On a side note, I held a poll this morning round the coffee table in Santa Cruz. There were 9 people all over 55 years old. I asked the question "Do you know who your MEP is"? After the usual " What's the English talking about"? I got the following.
No one knew who it was. No one cared who it was. Three didn't know what an MEP was. No one knew about the forthcoming elections. No one cared about the forthcoming elections. No one was going to vote in the forthcoming elections. The only thing they did all agree with that its just another corrupt politicion but since its Brussels its nothing to do with them. Now it would be easy to dismiss them as 'thick' but their not their just average people.
:laugh:
Quote from: Guanche on Wed 15 Jan 2014, 17:28Three didn't know what an MEP was.
:cheesy: :cheesy: Too much Franco during their youth methinks.
I think we have to distinguish between Spanish and Canarian. The Spanish are probably a century ahead of the Canarians. Like comparing Britain to, say, The Outer Hebrides. Or Wales
Erm, I have a small confession to make .................... :giggle:
Quote from: Michael on Wed 15 Jan 2014, 18:33
Erm, I have a small confession to make .................... :giggle:
Like an MP but with an extra E which stands for European. Notice how the E shoved itself in the middle to completely change the thing :D
Quote from: Nova on Wed 15 Jan 2014, 18:37
Like an MP but with an extra E which stands for European. Notice how the E shoved itself in the middle to completely change the thing :D
Oh I know exactly what it means, I just haven't a feckin clue who mine is. :rofl:
Quote from: Perikles on Wed 15 Jan 2014, 18:30
:cheesy: :cheesy: Too much Franco during their youth methinks.
I think we have to distinguish between Spanish and Canarian. The Spanish are probably a century ahead of the Canarians. Like comparing Britain to, say, The Outer Hebrides. Or Wales
Yes I have to agree with you P.
Quote from: Michael on Wed 15 Jan 2014, 18:33
Erm, I have a small confession to make .................... :giggle:
I strongly suspect your not on your own Michael :)
I know an MEP - I just don't know whose he is - does that count? :D
Quote from: Michael on Wed 15 Jan 2014, 18:33
Erm, I have a small confession to make .................... :giggle:
I don't think that it matters whether you know who your MEP is or not. They are just politicians. Do you know the name of your dustmen?
As ever, events from the past stick in my mind. As a teenager living in Huddersfield, a huge fuss was made when the local lad Harold Wilson became the Prime Minister. He was instantly famous, a local hero. A Labour MP from 'Uddersfield. Bloody 'ell. Anyway, a survey a few weeks later revealed that over 10% of the adult population in Huddersfield did not know who the PM was. I'm pretty sure that 99% had TV - how could they not know? That is the extent of general population awareness of politics.
Quote from: Guanche on Wed 15 Jan 2014, 18:41
I strongly suspect your not on your own Michael :)
Apparently we have 3. I've never heard of any of them. ::)
It's about a month to go now. How do we know where to vote? Do we need to take id along? Will they send a polling card?
Any further take on who to vote for?
I'm excited as this will be the fourth country I have voted in. Some people are easily entertained.
Quote from: Myrtle Hogan-Lance on Thu 24 Apr 2014, 15:20
I'm excited as this will be the fourth country I have voted in.
I can't remember voting for anything in any country. I've got to go and watch some paint dry.
Anyone on both the census and the padron in their local Ayto will be able to vote. Yes, they should send voting cards. If anyone is not on both lists, however, I fear that the deadline for registering to vote has passed ... I posted the following back in January, with the Adeje deadline the 30th, I daresay other Aytos will have a similar one.
:link: (http://www.janetanscombe.com/news/your-voice-in-europe-your-vote-on-may-25th.html)
Sadly for me I made the decision not to vote. I know for all my pontificating about politics its a tad hypocritical of me, but when you don't agree with any of the parties of candidates. Its a bit like turkeys voting for Christmas.
It will be a very interesting vote. I forsee a massive turnout for Eastern European countries and complete apathy from the rest. I also think the best one could wish for is that the Brussels bubble is punctured by a broadside from the electorate in the West which forces major change in the Power of the EU and the way its run.
Quote from: Myrtle Hogan-Lance on Thu 24 Apr 2014, 15:20
It's about a month to go now. How do we know where to vote? Do we need to take id along? Will they send a polling card?
Quote from: Janet on Thu 24 Apr 2014, 15:26
Anyone on both the census and the padron in their local Ayto will be able to vote. Yes, they should send voting cards. If anyone is not on both lists, however, I fear that the deadline for registering to vote has passed ... I posted the following back in January, with the Adeje deadline the 30th, I daresay other Aytos will have a similar one.
Alternatively ... if you can get your form to the UK by 6 May ...
:link: (http://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/register_to_vote/british_citizens_living_abroad.aspx)
As part of the European election, there is an open meeting this evening at 7pm in the Atlantic Holiday Centre in Callao Salvaje. The speaker is one of Spain's former socialist ministers, Trinidad Jiménez, who served as Health Minister, and then Foreign Secretary, in the Zapatero government. The meeting will be in Spanish, of course, but this is a great opportunity to hear a real political heavyweight speak in the context of European elections that affect us all. JA (http://www.janetanscombe.com/news/spains-ex-foreign-secretary-speaking-in-eu-election-open-meeting-in-callao-salvaje.html)
Funny thing. The wife received her 'Tarjeta Censal' for the EU elections last week in the post. I never gave it much thought until today when it dawned on me 'Where the **** is mine'? We are both registered as the wife does all things for the both of us at the same time and I get the 'Tajeta' for local elections the same time as she does. So it seems I don't even get the choice of not voting, typical EU!
Quote from: Pelinor on Wed 14 May 2014, 19:46
Funny thing. The wife received her 'Tarjeta Censal' for the EU elections last week in the post.
The whole thing is a bloody farce. Last time, I could vote and Janet could not. The reason? Because my card arrived and her's didn't because it was in a neighbour's letterbox, as we found out months later.
This time, neither of us has a card.
Well thats three of us. How many before we can lodge a complaint to the electorial observers..... I take it they must have them, from the UN maybe? :undecided:
I have my card! Now I just need to figure out what to do with it...
We both have ours. If you have an opinion, let me know so we can factor it into our votes. Democracy in action!
Quote from: Myrtle Hogan-Lance on Wed 14 May 2014, 22:29
We both have ours. If you have an opinion, let me know so we can factor it into our votes. Democracy in action!
Don't think it matters who you vote for Myrtle. From what I see all the Spanish EU types sing from the same hymn book, and the tune seems to be 'Total power to the EU'
I'm voting PSOE because there's a really cute blonde one.
Quote from: Prof on Thu 15 May 2014, 14:56
I'm voting PSOE because there's a really cute blonde one.
I am sure Prof's comment is tongue in cheek. But I feel the reality is that most won't even notice the 'Cute blonde one' and for those that do it will probably be enough! :nut:
There have been some changes in polling station allocations
If you are voting for the first time on May 25th in the European Elections – you must be on the census to do so – you will need to know which polling station you are required to attend to vote, and should have received an official communication telling you where to go. However if you haven't received this letter but have registered on the census you are still entitled to vote.
If you have voted before do still take note as there have been some important changes, in particular for residents in Playa Paraíso and Costa Adeje. While you have probably received a leaflet outlining the changes and listing the streets and the polling station allocation, here are the most important changes.
Playa Paraíso
In previous elections residents of Playa Paraíso voted in the Callao Salvaje Cultural Centre, however this year there are changes, due to the creation of a new electoral section, 'sección 17'. Voters who live in the following streets will now vote in the Armeñime station:
Armeñime Cultural Centre Polling Station
Sección 17 tables U
• Adeje 300,– the whole street
• Aljibe, (El) , the whole street
• Andenes, (Los) , 1- 13
• Galgas, (Las), 1- 18
• Horno, (El), the whole street
• Idafe, 1-59
• Ladera (La), 1- 20
• Loma (La), the whole street
• Pinque, (El), the whole street
• Playa Paraiso, 1- 101
• Vega, (La), 1- 31
• Vera, (La), 1- 21
Costa Adeje
There are a number of changes for residents in Costa Adeje from Playa las Américas to San Eugenio Alto, due to the creation of a new 'seccíon 18'. Therefore people who might have voted previously in the Magma Arte y Congresses centre may find they are now voting in the Costa Adeje (Las Américas) Bus Station or the Miraverde Cultural Centre. Check below for your street name and number.
Miraverde Cultural Centre
Sección 18, tables A-B
• Andorra, the whole street
• Aragon, the whole street
• Asturias, 1- 99
• Atenas, 1-99, 2-98
• Baleares, 2-20, 1-23
• Beirut, 1- 2
• Berna, 1-10
• Cantabria, the whole street
• Ceuta, the whole street
• Dublin, the whole street
• Extremadura, the whole street
• Galicia, the whole street
• Ifonche, 1-44
• Lisboa, 1-44
• Madroñal, 26-60, 67
• Melilla, the whole street
• Murcia, the whole street
• Navarra, the whole street
• Rioja, (La), the whole street
Costa Adeje Bus Station
Sección 7, tables A-B
• Antonio Navarro
• Argentina, 1-4
• Bolivia, 1-4
• Bruselas (De), 1-11
• Colon, (De) the whole street
• Comarcal, 2 -26, 1-45
• Cuba, 1-4
• Ernesto Sarti, the whole street
• España, (De) the whole street
• Eugenio Dominguez Afonso, 1-4
• Gran Bretaña, the whole street
• Guatemala, the whole street
• Londres, 1-4
• Paraguay, the whole street
• Paris, 1-14
• Pueblos (De los), the whole street
• Rafael Puig Lluvinia, the whole street
• Republica de Panama, the whole street
• Roma, 1-6
• Uruguay, the whole street
• V Centenario, the whole street
• Valencia, 1-6
• Venezuela, the whole street
Sección 11 table U
• Alemania, 2-18, 1-9
• Austria, the whole street
• Caldera, (La), the whole street
• Cataluña, 1-16
• Diario de Avisos, 1-17
• Dinamarca, 1-17, 2-4
• Europa, the whole street
• Finlandia, the whole street
• Francia, the whole street
• Grecia, 1-7
• Irlanda, the whole street
• Islandia, 1-4
• Italia, 1-6
• Madrid, the whole street
• Noruega, 1-7, 2-4
• Pais Vasco, the whole street
• Paises Bajos, 1-3, 2-6
• Pasaje de Austria, 1-99
• Portugal, 1-10
• Suecia, the whole street
• Suiza, the whole street
• Vista Bella, 1-12
If you are still unsure or have more questions, you can check with the council by phone on 922 756 200 or 922 531 750.
JA (http://www.janetanscombe.com/news/your-voice-in-europe-your-vote-on-may-25th.html)
Santa Cruz this morning. 12 old gits sat round the coffee table. Question, 'Who's going to vote?' Answer, two and one of those is the wife who's going to spoil her vote.
:-X :giggle:
Earlier I was in a dilemma as to which party to vote for. Now, very helpfully, I have received bumpf from the PP, CC, los verdes, the socialistas, the unión progreso y democracia, and the CC again. So much reading material! I can't wait.
What am I supposed to do with all the little envelopes and lists of candidates they have included?
If I remember correctly you can use them to vote once you have gone through the verification process. Stick the list in the envlope before you go or in the voting booth and put the vote in the box................. I think, Janet?
yes :great:
European elections - how to vote
If you are an EU national and are on both the 'padrón' and census of your local Ayuntamiento, you are entitled to vote this coming Sunday, 25 May, in the European Elections. Remember, however, that you can only vote once in these elections, so if you are going to be in the UK to vote on the 22nd (when the UK is holding its own EU elections), you cannot also vote here in Spain.
Spain will elect 54 deputies to the European Parliament. You should have received a polling card through the post telling you where your polling station is, but provided that you are on the padron and census, you will still able to vote even if you have not received such a card. You may, however, need to check where your polling station is by contacting your local town hall. There have been some changes to voting stations in Adeje, most notably for voters in Playa Paraíso and Costa Adeje, as in yesterday's post above.
Polling stations will be open from 9am to 8pm on Sunday. You will need to have some form of photo ID with you – Spanish national identity card (DNI), UK passport, drivers licence if it has a photograph. You should carry your Certificado de Registro as well to show that you are correctly registered with the police to live legally in Spain. Whatever documents you take, take the originals. Once your turn comes you will approach the table and identify yourself to the officers. Spain votes using the D'Hondt Method of allocating seats using a list system, so the political parties have already chosen the list of candidates who will represent them. Those lists are printed off and placed in the booths with the names of the parties at the top of each list and the candidates underneath. Your vote involves choosing which "list", so which party, you wish to vote for, rather than individual candidates. Having chosen one of the lists, you place it in the envelope provided and then slot it into the ballot box at the electoral table. JA (http://www.janetanscombe.com/news/european-elections-how-to-vote.html)
Wonder how well UKIP will really do in the UK's Euroelections. And if so whether it's really a protest vote, or just that Farage sounds like a human being (which is what LibDem minister Lynne Featherstone has just said).
Well, Farage does sound more human than the rest of them, but the interesting fact is how many scandals there have been in recent weeks about the less pleasant members of the party which have apparently failed to dent their standings in the polls.
If it were a vote in support of the UKIP itself, I'd presume the standings in polls would have dropped as a result, but that's not what we saw in the polls leading up to this. But it will be very interesting indeed.
It could be that it's a protest vote, of course that's a possibility, but I'm not getting that impression. I think the problem from the main parties' perspective has been that although there have been embarrassing incidents for UKIP, the main parties' attacks, and that of the press, on UKIP has backfired. Rather than the public seeing UKIP through fresh eyes, all they seem to have seen is a "minor" party under attack from the big boys, and a party, moreover, that sounds more human, and in touch ...
They'll forgive or overlook - for the moment - the racist comments, or nutjobs, and give the benefit of the doubt on the basis that it could be manufactured lies, or an aberration ...
Quote from: Pete on Fri 23 May 2014, 00:10
Well, Farage does sound more human than the rest of them, but the interesting fact is how many scandals there have been in recent weeks about the less pleasant members of the party which have apparently failed to dent their standings in the polls.
I think the great British public recognise a smear job when they see one. Maybe like me they're wondering why our wonderful press weren't publicising the nutters whenever they were Tories?
There's the possibility of a protest vote over here as well only for different reasons.
We've got terrorists in government and the unionist religious nutter dinosaurs that we've had for decades haven't a pair of balls between them so it could be interesting.
Current changes in councillors (as at 1:58am as according to BBC News):
Labour +3 (91)
Tory -20 (75)
UKIP +23 (23)
LibDm -6 (9)
I'm definitely getting a protest-vote feeling because it's almost a one for one Tory for UKIP.
And we're still waiting for the Euro election vote ... which is the really interesting thing as far as UKIP votes are concerned (and what the thread is about :tiphat: )
When is it expected? I understand it doesn't come until all votes are counted within the EU.
Sunday evening I think Michael.
oh what? Sunday? :banghead:
In fact the full result won't be in until Monday!!! They can't even start counting intill the last EU state has finished voting and that seems to be Italy on Sunday evening. All I can say is FFS!!
On a slightly different note, wouldn't if be interesting if the EU had a stand alone vote. I have no doubt the only reason most people vote on the EU is because most are voting for local elections at the same time. So 'While I'm here I might as well vote' may play its part? I think I'm correct is saying the turn out in the UK was 36%? I think it would be significantly less if the EU had to stand alone for election.
I agree, and which, from my perspectives, bodes very well for any referendum ... I need the UK to stay in ...
I agree Janet I do think it would be a mistake in the long term to leave. However the EU and its institutions need a massive kick up the arse. It really need to be brought under control. Their arrogance is breath taking considered that the majority of their upper echelon is totally undemocratic as its so far removed from the electorate as it possibly can be.
:iagree:
:buttkick:
Amen to that Pelinor!
Quote from: Pelinor on Fri 23 May 2014, 18:07
On a slightly different note, wouldn't if be interesting if the EU had a stand alone vote. I have no doubt the only reason most people vote on the EU is because most are voting for local elections at the same time. So 'While I'm here I might as well vote' may play its part? I think I'm correct is saying the turn out in the UK was 36%? I think it would be significantly less if the EU had to stand alone for election.
I'm guessing this is quite deliberate as they know a huge number of people don't give a shit about the EU and wouldn't be arsed voting.
Question from the crowd: I hear a lot of 'in/out referendum' promises 'by 2017' for the UK. What exactly do they mean?
I don't see how it can be a simple binary vote. 'Out' is simple enough, but 'In' isn't. Would the vote be to remain in Europe 'as it is now' or voting to 'go further in'?
Seems to me that whoever happened to be in power then could quite easily fulfil a pledge for an in/out referendum and sway it whichever way they wanted through such methods. For example, were UKIP to come to a majority in the next election, I can actually imagine them putting the vote as 'all the way in' vs 'all the way out', rather than 'status quo' vs 'all the way out'. I think the UK needs to stay part of the EU but I don't think it needs to (or should) go as far as joining the Euro etc.
Its an empty offer Pete. They, and I mean all the parties, have no intention of giving any 'In out vote' on the EU. Its just electioneering. The people wouldn't fall for it anyway for the very reasons you have pointed out. Its a win win situation for the Tory's, or any of them. They know full well that there is a very high probability that the UK, given the frighteners, will not vote to leave. But an 'In' vote will give a blank cheque to anything the Europhiles want and that can't be good for the UK.
Quote from: Pelinor on Fri 23 May 2014, 20:33
Its an empty offer Pete. They, and I mean all the parties, have no intention of giving any 'In out vote' on the EU. Its just electioneering. The people wouldn't fall for it anyway for the very reasons you have pointed out. Its a win win situation for the Tory's, or any of them. They know full well that there is a very high probability that the UK, given the frighteners, will not vote to leave. But an 'In' vote will give a blank cheque to anything the Europhiles want and that can't be good for the UK.
I'm not so sure about that. :whistle:
Just back from voting which took about 5 minutes including the walk across the street to the cultural centre. It was a piece of cake. Although we took the filing cabinet all they wanted to see was our passports. We had taken the envelopes with us so just put them in the ballot box and we never saw the inside of the voting booth. It was a bit of an anti-climax.
They are anticipating a huge abstention, and are calling for people to show their support for Europe in the face of what appears to be widespread apathy ... :undecided:
Quote from: Myrtle Hogan-Lance on Sun 25 May 2014, 14:38
Just back from voting which took about 5 minutes including the walk across the street to the cultural centre. It was a piece of cake.
Same for me, except that ours was closed, with no indication where to go. No notification, nothing.
What a bloody farce.
The wifes just got a cartoon on her facebook.
'En las proximas elecciones vota Ali Baba al menos sabes seguro que los ladrones seran solo 40' With, of course a picture of Ali Baba. :tiphat:
For the non-Spanish speaking ...
"In the next election vote Ali Baba ... at least you'll know there'll only be forty thieves" ... :D
Quote from: Janet on Sun 25 May 2014, 14:42
They are anticipating a huge abstention, and are calling for people to show their support for Europe in the face of what appears to be widespread apathy ... :undecided:
They're now saying participation in the Euro elections in the Canaries was 15.95% ... 2.5% below 2009's participation.
edit: Oh FFS, continuing the bloody tradition of Canarian fucking uselessness with numbers, one source (http://eldia.es/canarias/2014-05-25/24-participacion-Canarias-baja-dos-puntos-medio-respecto.htm) gives 15.95%, another (http://www.diariodeavisos.com/2014/05/participacion-en-canarias-se-situa-en-2605-dos-puntos-menos-en-2009/) gives 26.05%. Take your pick. The way it's reported suggests that everyone went to vote this afternoon, but I'm too used to the hair-tearing-outness of unemployment stats to imagine it's that simple ...
Seems that in France, it is a clear victory for the right-wing, anti-immigration, anti-EU party of Marine Le Pen ... it's not just UKIP!
All one has to do is listen to a few French people to know this was going to happen. But I don't think that the French are voting this party in for the same reasons that the UK voters voted in UKIP. I would go as far to suggest that the UK voters are not even on the same page as the French as far as 'Right wing' goes. :undecided:
but the EU has to take note, don't you think, P? There is a loud voice against federalism, against "integration", against the anti-democratic nature of it all, against constant expansion ... and whether it takes the form of Le Pen, or Farage, it's still shouting now ...
One would think so, or at least hope so Janet. But I fear that the roots in Brussels are to deep. Remember that for the most part the political elite working and elected to Brussels are failed or third rate politicians in their home countries. One step from retirement like the Kinnocks or in the case of Ms Ashton nothing more than a Civil Servant. All the Eastern countries were until a few years ago under the yoke of the Kremlin. Are we to seriously believe that their political class have suddenly embraced honest democracy?
The fact that this was coming must have been clear to the whole of the Brussels Bubble for the past two or three years. And what have they done? Nothing. In fact I would say they made matters worse. I point to the EU budget and the hard line stance that the EU is not for negotiation over its rules. Not to mention the 'Crisis'. The reason for the rise of the Far Right and Far Left can be placed squarely on the doorstep of the EU. Their arrogance in failing to listen and understand is breathtaking. But so are the national Governments.
It would seem that their only defence is to call reasonable people xenophobes, racist, populist, nationlist. Yes there are some but not all.
They have been full steam ahead racing for the finish line hoping that the public won't notice until its to late. But the public have noticed and are trying to put the blocks on to at least slow the train down. Of course its not just the Brussels mob. They couldn't have got this far without the collusion of National governments.
They mightn't have too much of a say if countries seize back their sovereignty. Interesting that Marine Le Pen says she's "detoxified" the party from its racist roots:
Quote'The EU nowadays is like the old Soviet Union - it can't be improved,' she said. 'We need to let it crumble and build after it a Europe of free and sovereign nations.' Ms Le Pen is also committed to maintaining French jobs for French workers, and cutting down on all immigration, especially from eastern Europe. Her party is also committed to fighting the growing influence of Islam on France, a country which has the largest Muslim community in western Europe. Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638965/Massive-victory-French-far-right-National-Front-record-quarter-vote-Euro-elections.html)
These things, sovereignty, home country nationals first, anti-immigration (at least widescale), and anti-Islam, are the four things that I would say have fuelled UKIP's successes (as we assume at this point). Germany is sounding the same from the press there, so it will be interesting to see what happens there. And the Netherlands, Austria ... they're all swinging right, but not to the centre right which is where austerity has come from. They've gone much further right ...
They're tolerant these days, or much more so anyway, to the old
bêtes noires like sexuality (Austrian Conchita is a good example of the new tolerance, though UKIP has picked up a few Tories discontented with gay marriage), but the new enemy is within ... the EU, and its soft liberal attitudes. And the last time Europe swung right because of economic pressures forcing nationalism wasn't good ...
The EU has to listen!
Quote from: Janet on Sun 25 May 2014, 21:20
The EU has to listen!
Things could get really interesting if they don't wouldn't you say? :whistle:
I doubt very much that she has 'Detoxified' her party, we will no doubt see in the summer! All I can see is a charm offensive by the EU and national Governments. Will that be enough? I doubt it. So trouble at Mill? I think so.
I agree she won't have detoxified it, but she's painted over the cracks so well that the toxic element, hidden during the campaign, is now swamped by discontented "normals" ...
Yes, interesting times. China must be laughing because that's what we're living in, and that's what they wish their worst enemies ...
Just listening to the TV pundits and they made an interesting point. They say that because the far Left and the far Right are so far apart that they won't have any impact on the centre Europhiles. So the question is Does the EU have to listen to anyone?
Not sure about that ... in some ways the political spectrum is more horseshoe-shaped than linear: the far right and far left aren't really that far apart, just think how Hitler and Mussolini got on ...
One of the BBC's headlines is "Eurosceptic 'earthquake' rocks EU elections" ...
:link: (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27559714)
QuoteElsewhere exit polls suggest the radical left anti-austerity party Syriza has come first in the elections in Greece. While in Italy it looks set to be a close fight between the Democratic Party of the Prime Minister Matteo Renzi (running in his first national campaign) and Beppe Grillo's Five Star Movement.
So plenty of anti-establishment parties are poised to increase their share of the vote, as predicted. It could well make for a more interesting more rumbustious European parliament. Even so there will still be a clear pro-European majority.
The question for mainstream parties on the centre-right and the centre-left is how they intend to respond to the sense of dissatisfaction with "politics as usual" that many voters have clearly expressed.
Far right in France, far left in Greece ... horseshoe ...
I am trying to get my head around the EU and its Parliament and how it works. I'm ashamed to say I really didn't have an idea how it works and how the 'groups' Left Centre and right are made up and how they get power in the house. Parties, it would seem, have to group and there must be a minimum of seven countries to make a group. The Tory's were in the EU Conservative group but Cameron took them out so now their in a smaller group Sorry Janet I'm losing the will to live :giggle:
:laugh:
And I've just lost it having heard a defeated Conservative MEP saying that the Front National victory in France is "a bad day for democracy". What the fuck? It was democracy that allowed them to be voted for!
Yes think were watching the same program. Now some Libdem saying how well they did and still beating the drum for the EU FFS! They just don't get it even in the jaws of death!! This for me is one of the greatest problem with politics 100% BS but the public have moved on. They just don't get it!
Greece is interesting ... Syriza up from almost nothing to 26%, and Golden Dawn on 9% ... hard left and far right between them have won over a third of the vote. The extremes really aren't so far apart.
And in Spain, the far left has done really well ..
PP 16 out of 54 MEPS, down from 24; PSOE 14 down from 23. 24 MEPs from other parties! Nearly half!
Podemos, new left-wing party based in the Los Indignados movement against austerity even got five seats.
Polls weren't predicting this.
LibDems saying that the anti-EU vote shows they need to work harder to make the argument for the EU ... (alternative might be to admit error, perhaps ... ) ...
AND that well, of course, there are always protest votes against the party in government ... (so why hasn't the conservative vote collapsed too then) ...
People won't forgive and forget, that's the LibDem's real problem! And long may that problem continue, lying hypocritical treacherous Tory-supporting student-fee-principle-changling bastards ... and personal liberty traitors, of all parties to undermine personal liberties ...
Wipeout, and deservedly so.
Where are the results? I can't find anything. :undecided:
:tiphat:
Official EU :link: (http://www.results-elections2014.eu/en/country-results-es-2014.html)
or BBC HERE (http://www.bbc.com/news/events/vote2014/eu-election-results).
("EFD" is "Europe of Freedom and Democracy", a right-wing eurosceptic group in the european parliament)
Here's the bit I don't understand.
How come everyone is talking about how well UKIP has done but everything for the UK on that EU page is blank. :017:
results not fully in officially yet because London still not declared because London said it would not publish by borough but only as a single result and Tower Hamlets fucked up ... and because the Scottish vote can't be included (even though the SNP did better than expected which will piss off England) because although virtually the whole country's vote is counted, the Western Islands won't count votes on "the Sabbath" ...
Quote from: Janet on Mon 26 May 2014, 11:41
results not fully in officially yet because London still not declared because London said it would not publish by borough but only as a single result and Tower Hamlets fucked up ... and because the Scottish vote can't be included (even though the SNP did better than expected which will piss off England) because although virtually the whole country's vote is counted, the Western Islands won't count votes on "the Sabbath" ...
I might have known those friggin numpties would be involved somewhere. ::)
On the plus side,
QuoteBritish National Party leader Nick Griffin has been ousted as an MEP - but said Ukip supporters were racists who would turn back to his party when they realised Nigel Farage would not "send them all home".
The far-right party lost both its European Parliament seats in the North West, with Labour taking three, Ukip three and the Conservatives two.
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-05-26/bnp-leader-nick-griffin-loses-european-parliament-seat/ (http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-05-26/bnp-leader-nick-griffin-loses-european-parliament-seat/)
I was talking to Clio O'Flynn, along with Karl McLoughlin, today on Adeje English Time, the full programme dedicated to discussing the European election results. If anyone's interested, click the following link and download. The file is just too big to upload ...
:link: (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qf8wza4lhc85q3j/AACfHgEEKuRK821gAHbdarlQa/%282014-05-26%29%20English%20Time.mp3)
We've been out today so not kept pace with the news. From what little I have read and listened to it would seem that not a lot will change. The main Europhile parties in the EU still have their power base, smaller but still the two biggist parties. Very few comments on the 'EU Active' news letters I get. I know its early days but I think the Brussels Bubble installed 'Earth quake' foundations years ago. While Europe shakes Brussels seems unmoved? :undecided:
Yes, I think that's right ... but each earthquake weakens those sorts of foundations, and this was a big one.
Two early casualties, within 24 hours. The Irish Labour leader has resigned, as has Spain's socialist PSOE leader (heir to Zapatero) ...
early days ...
I hope so Janet, I really hope so :undecided:
I've talked about abstentions here, and how low the turnout was, and suggested it's the result of apathy ... and some support for that interpretation comes from the analysis of abstentions, and the result that Arona was the municipality with the smallest vote, a participation of just 22,32% . People would seem just to know there that there is absolutely no bloody point voting.
To me, if ever there was a clear connection between apathy, political corruption and low turnout, it's Arona. And the simple fact is that the Canaries was the CCAA with the lowest turnout in Spain. Arona is just the worst apple in a barrel of pretty fucking awful apples.
Just had the mind in neutral staring at the bloody yap dogs across the Brancco that I would happly shoot if I had a rifle when a thought came to me. Are European politics becoming as mind numbing as the American gun control problem.
Guns don't kill people people kill people. or to put it a Europiean way. The Eu and politics are not the problem, people are the problem.
As I say minds in neutral toooo much wine :nut:
Just great. The first one through here is Sinn Féin's Martina Anderson. A convicted fucking terrorist. :banghead:
Hasn't she been re elected Michael. I seem to remember two convicted terrorist from NI being MEP's?
Quote from: Pelinor on Mon 26 May 2014, 19:23
Hasn't she been re elected Michael. I seem to remember two convicted terrorist from NI being MEP's?
Sorry, yes, re-elected. :)
Groan.
The arch Europhile and Queen of the EU Frau Merkel says that gains for the Far Right are 'Regrettable' Now is she saying that the millions who voted for the far right or even the far left are wrong to exercise their democratic right, and its just unfortunate and must be addressed by giving them cake..... or jobs to bring them back into line? And then everything will be fine? A German perspective?
A better line might have been 'A large number of the EU voters all across the EU have spoken they don't like what they see and its up to the EU to listen and change' But no, its 'Regrettable' that they have voted this way.
No wonder I'm so pessimistic. Is it me :undecided:
I was watching a panel show a few months ago on BBC NI. The panel consisted of comedians both from N.Ireland and the Republic so there was a certain amount of north/south banter.
One of the southern comics made a joke about the royal family.
So one of the northern guys says, 'Here, steady on, that's the Queen you're talking about.'
Southern comic replies, 'She's not my Queen!' then to howls of laughter, 'That would be Angela Merkel!' :giggle:
When was the last time France and the UK were on the same side? Must have been WWII ... before de Gaulle said Non to Britain joining the common market! And now look at us, on the same side inside the "common market"!
Thing is that although it will be business as normal in the main, they know now that something has to change. Even if they continue to insist that it's all a protest vote that will evaporate if the economy improves, they'll realize that that's a forlorn hope when the economy improves and the "protest vote" continues. At some point they'll get it.
And meanwhile, this all bodes fairly well for Dave's "renegotiation" plans ... which ironically will probably mean that the UK will be even more likely to vote to stay in the EU ... if there ever really is a referendum, of course ...
I'm beginning to think it would be in the UK's interest not to have a referendum. I have no doubt that over the next couple of years the national governments and the EU management will do a 'Hearts and Minds' job on the public to ensure the UK stays in if there is a vote. I don't think they will have to try all that hard. A few scraps of EU powers returned to National Governments, a large smear campain on the Euroskeptics both left and right, a promise to 'Talk' about immigration and the EU mandarins will have the ball in the bag. Lots can happen in the next three years and the 'Crisis' will be a dim memory. There is no doubt that the UK's economy is improving. That's why they are waiting till 2017 plenty of time for the charm offensive!
Its a well used Tory trick play scrooge to save money. Then when its needed throw it at the public showering them with gifts to blind and bribe them with tax cuts and the like. Then give the credit to the EU and its fiscal powers. There can be no doubt that all main stream parties are Europhiles. And without a Euroskeptic opposition there will be nothing to temper the EU and its ambitions. That cannot be good in any democratic world. There must be naysayers!
So in the event of a straight 'In Out' vote the country will vote to stay in (I'll bet half a pint of very cheap EU beer on it) If they do vote 'In' that will be the end to any real opposition to the EU. With that vote it will allow the national government and EU to do as it pleases. I would say that within five years the UK will have the Euro and there will be the formation of the Federal States of Europe. An 'In' vote will effectively open the EU flood gates and the UK parties know it as does the EU.
Without a referendum the Euroskeptics and their opposition will be an open wound to the EU and a voice for the many people that the EU would walk over and ignore branding them racist or xenophobes or any other insult that suits them. I feel at the moment that a vote would, in a few years time fall right into the hands of the Europhiles and take us down a one way street in which we will have little or no control.
Couldn't agree more, and it's exactly the lines my mind was chuntering along as I was listening to Dave the other night going on about the Tories being the only party to "guarantee" an in-out referendum. That's precisely what's not needed! What's needed is a "what do you want" referendum ... but they're impossible to compose. Best to stay with the status quo and have the "protest vote" mould policy from the inside!
Exactly Janet, that's probably why I feel more ill at ease now than I did before the EU results. Looking through the EU news sheets this morning there is little said about the election and the results. Its acknowledged but that's about it. A few comments about the disenchantment and miss trust of the voters, but nothing that more jobs, a fight on tax evasion and war on crime wouldn't solve. Nothing about a change of direction for the EU or a rethink. I expected more, not sure what of but, just more. Still early days?
Wailing and gnashing of teeth would have been good? :)
Quote from: Pelinor on Tue 27 May 2014, 10:56
I'm beginning to think it would be in the UK's interest not to have a referendum. I have no doubt that over the next couple of years the national governments and the EU management will do a 'Hearts and Minds' job on the public to ensure the UK stays in if there is a vote. I don't think they will have to try all that hard. A few scraps of EU powers returned to National Governments, a large smear campain on the Euroskeptics both left and right, a promise to 'Talk' about immigration and the EU mandarins will have the ball in the bag. Lots can happen in the next three years and the 'Crisis' will be a dim memory. There is no doubt that the UK's economy is improving. That's why they are waiting till 2017 plenty of time for the charm offensive!
But haven't they already tried that? They've done their damndest, ably assisted by our wonderful media, to destroy UKIP but look where it's got them. :whistle:
They're only delaying the inevitable.
Quote from: Janet on Tue 27 May 2014, 11:02
Couldn't agree more, and it's exactly the lines my mind was chuntering along as I was listening to Dave the other night going on about the Tories being the only party to "guarantee" an in-out referendum. That's precisely what's not needed! What's needed is a "what do you want" referendum ... but they're impossible to compose. Best to stay with the status quo and have the "protest vote" mould policy from the inside!
Aye very good Dave, 'the Tories being the only party to "guarantee" an in-out referendum' when he knows fine fucking rightly they're not going to be in power to deliver it. Bastard. :banghead:
At friggin last!
We've got one terrorist, one DUP and one Ulster Unionist.
Pffft! ::)
I just watched an interesting prog which tried to put both sides of the in/out debate.
Bottom line, if a referendum was held today, 42% would vote out, 31% would vote to stay in and 26% undecided.