Well, we've been waiting for this moment for a few years now, and at last the Spanish Government's economy minister, Luis de Guindos, says it has arrived. Spain has hit the bottom. It's a very bad place to be, said Sr de Guindos, but given the latest figures for the economy and, not least, for unemployment which has now fallen for six consecutive months, the country is at rock bottom. The positive side of this, of course, is that although it will be a long hard climb out of the trough of despair Spain has been in now for at least five years, and although the country may bounce along the bottom for a little while yet while it stabilizes, in the end, the only way is up. JA (http://www.janetanscombe.com/news/spain-hits-rock-bottom-but-the-only-way-is-up.html)
So what qualifies as rock bottom? How do they know it can't get any worse? As cynical as ever, I feel that Sr de Guindos may be a little optimistic :-X
I'm no economist, to say the least, but he is taking various factors into account, I think, and the unemployment figures do give reason for hope. Property prices have stabilized too, and there are some signs of upward blips. Those who know what they're talking have always said mid-late 2013 would be the bottom too, so everything does point to him being correct. I hope so!
Still over 1million unsold empty propertys in Spain .
Property prices will go down more!
The younger generations do not have the money amymore to buy property / holiday property for the foreigners then .
There was a small boom now from late baby boomers who still have some money and some Russians maybe but this wont last in the future on a grand scale to buy all.
Banks also do not lend eazely anymore they are still in to and over their heads stoked with unsold propertys .
Of course good propertys and good locations will always be the exeption .
Minimum wage in Germany arround 9 euro /h here 3,5 €H .. . . . .
Don't laugh, but do you know what made me realize just how fucked Spain is?
Top Gear series 20 episode 3.
Here's the link (http://www.streetfire.net/video/top-gear-series-20-episode-3-s20e03_part-1_2431750.htm).
Do me a favour and watch it. It's truly jaw dropping.
Thousands of empty apartments (in one small town), an abandoned airport etc. etc.
Bloody hell!
I'm enjoying that! :great: I'll have to finish watching it later though. That town where they do the speed test could almost be Palm Mar :sofa:
When I was in Puerto Banús, the flashy cars doing the harbour run were having to push through dense crowds - I was clipped by a few wing-mirrors. I couldn't believe how dead that stretch was on the video. Either it was the wrong time of year or even Puerto Banús is suffering from La Crisis :undecided:
The bottom is very deep ... Spain's sunk very low and it's going to be a long hard climb back up, and we're not going to start going up for a while either. But there are clear signs it's not going any further. I hear what Poker says about property prices, but they won't go lower. There might be one or two dips, but in general, 75% reductions are the limit ... and that's where we are now.
Quote from: Nova on Thu 5 Sep 2013, 07:59
I'm enjoying that! :great: I'll have to finish watching it later though. That town where they do the speed test could almost be Palm Mar :sofa:
When I was in Puerto Banús, the flashy cars doing the harbour run were having to push through dense crowds - I was clipped by a few wing-mirrors. I couldn't believe how dead that stretch was on the video. Either it was the wrong time of year or even Puerto Banús is suffering from La Crisis :undecided:
Wait until you see the airport. :whistle:
I'm afraid if they won't lower the property's will yust stand there and slowly crumble . . . . . .
The money is not there anymore in the next 10 years like it used to . . . .
As in one other thread here somewere in the forum says , death of the middle class and with it the spending power of them .
And will the younger generations still want to buy a holiday home and come to the same place every year . . . .. .
Only one solution left . . . . a euro split north/south ?
But the EU wont let that happen also so its gonne end in more poverty in the south.
We have not seen rock bottem yet .
Quote from: Michael on Thu 5 Sep 2013, 14:00
Wait until you see the airport. :whistle:
I just did. Ciudad Real I believe. :c029:
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Ciudad+Real+Central+Airport,+Ciudad+Real,+Spain&hl=en&ll=38.85682,-3.966064&spn=5.465735,12.689209&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=8.297233,25.378418&oq=ciudad+real&t=m&z=7&iwloc=A
There are people who are buying now that properties can be bought for 25% of previous asking prices, and this last month is the best in the Canaries, for one area, for several years.
This seems as good a place as any to post this (http://economia.elpais.com/economia/2013/09/13/actualidad/1379103316_384990.html)interesting article. A report that out of nowhere, large numbers of foreigners or foreign investment entities are starting to buy up property in Spain. They don't really know how to interpret this at the moment.
They can't interpret it? That the banks have been instructed, as part of their bailout, to get rid of the repossessions and unsold offplans on their books, even if means effectively giving them away ...
How can anyone fail to interpret that?
I think this thread was exactly the appropriate one to post that in because it does show that if things are cheap enough, or the will to offload is great enough, property will move. My only concern is that as the improvement begins, corruption and stupidity don't rear their ugly heads again, and fuel another boom that will blow the country's economy into smithereens.
foreign investment entities that could have connections with the banks ........
Seems like a never ending story .......
You need real peaple to live or use more than 1 million wrong built homes if you really want to solve it .
Now I'm not sure where I read it or who wrote it, I think it was a forum member on another forum so I apologies if I get it wrong.
This sounds like the UK high street problem. Big investors buy property and over time inflate the price. This allows them to borrow or do other things backed up by a large portfolio of properties. But its a house of cards. The properties have to be kept unsold and unlet, unless some idiot wishes to buy or rent at the inflated price!
Is this going to happen in Spain? Thousands of empty properties bought cheap by foreign investors, who on the books inflate the prices, but keep them empty, unsold and unlet?
A house of cards in the making?
A lot of the prices have come a lot down but if you look at the local waiges it seems still property prices are inflated .
It can't change a lot as long as there is the same euro money all over Europe .
Like Guanche says new crisis in the making . . . . Could be in another 10 years or could be sooner , who knows .
In futer less peaple form the middle class ----> less money ---> les property buying or selling .
Poker'd better not read THIS (http://www.islandconnections.eu/1000003/1000043/0/42257/daily-news-article.html) ... :whistle:
QuoteWhile the rest of the regions saw an overall average drop of 17% in sales compared to the previous year (the figure for Asturias being a massive 37% down), the islands posted an increase of nearly 2%, continuing the upward trend recorded in 2012, according to the latest government figures. Among the interesting facts to emerge from the newly-released statistics, it has emerged that foreign buyers accounted for a full 36% of all property sales in the Canaries last year, twice the figure seen in Spain as a whole. Despite the welcome improvement, which experts attribute to the current attractive prices and growing confidence in an economic recovery here, property sales remain well below the pre-recession levels and are 39% down on 2008.
Flipping that around, it means that 64% of buyers are Spanish. And we tend to think there is no money around, but clearly there is.
I think there's loads of money around. The problem is that its all in the Mattress Bank and with money laundering laws its very difficult for it to find its way to the housing market.
Quote from: Pelinor on Wed 12 Mar 2014, 15:37
I think there's loads of money around. The problem is that its all in the Mattress Bank and with money laundering laws its very difficult for it to find its way to the housing market.
Yes, there are now strict and small limits on how much actual cash can be paid at notary for the purchase of a property.
I think this is a major problem, all this black money and no one has the savy to get it into the system. I think the most you can pay in cash for anything is €5000.
Quote from: Pelinor on Wed 12 Mar 2014, 15:55
I think this is a major problem, all this black money and no one has the savy to get it into the system. I think the most you can pay in cash for anything is €5000.
That's why some politicians keep buying winning the lottery dozens of times. No idea how they do that. :whistle:
Does making a large deposit into a bank, say 20K or 50K every now and then attract the attention of the authorities? I would think you could make a few deposits via withdrawals from the Mattress Bank and build up what you need in the bank account, then pay for the property. But really have no idea.
Quote from: Myrtle Hogan-Lance on Wed 12 Mar 2014, 16:02
Does making a large deposit into a bank, say 20K or 50K every now and then attract the attention of the authorities?
Any deposit into any account of €3000 euros or more is automatically flagged up for attention of the Hacienda. Is that right, Nova?
Once I was playing around with cash deposits and withdrawals, and our friendly cashier paid money straight into a deposit account (or half there and half elsewhere) to avoid this issue. These days, I don't have these problems. :03:
I don't think it's as easy as filtering money into an account over time. I think anything over €10,000 sets the alarms off, and of course the banks tell (as I understand) the Hacienda how much money you have in your accounts for tax reasons. :undecided:
Spanish residents can pay up to 100,000 euros into their account in cash without having to sign a declaration. 100k and above needs an S1 form declaring the provenance and purpose of the money which is emitted at the source of the cash and must accompany the cash until it reaches its destination. The penalties applied to operations of 100k and above without the accompanying S1 declaration are very high.
That does not mean though that operations below 100k are of no interest to Hacienda or the money laundering police, since for any operation of 3,000 euros or above, we are obliged to keep a copy of the customer's ID filed with the operation, just in case it is ever requested. No ID, no deposit, and operations of 2,999 euros will probably draw even more attention.
For non-residents the same applies to operations of 10,000 and above.
Quote from: Janet on Wed 12 Mar 2014, 08:26
Poker'd better not read THIS (http://www.islandconnections.eu/1000003/1000043/0/42257/daily-news-article.html) ... :whistle:
Still Baby boomers buying , who earnt to mutch and dont know real prices and are buying for pension with the prices now lower . . .
Can you beleave in our complex they sold for 42.000 , 45.000 , 62.000 and even a few for 113.000 ( 2 times to Belgians) ?
Whats the diferance , selling to foreingers or not . . .
Oh yes maybe some referbs for maximum 10.000 but that does not make it wurth doubble to my point?
Next few years wont be as booming Im sure. And in 10 years its gonne be a whole different story. Differance as always is age . I can wayt ( only 45 yet :-) ) others older have to buy as the only prospect is pension and what to do with their money . . .
In future you can not change it the younger generations do not have the kind of money in masses as it used to be for the generations before. And black money will be totaly unknown in future its all being monitord tru computerisation nowdays .
In contries nike Norway peaple don't even run arround with real money anymore in their pockets , only credit\debit cards .
You can not swim against the tide . . . .
QuoteAnd black money will be totaly unknown in future its all being monitord tru computerisation nowdays .
In contries nike Norway peaple don't even run arround with real money anymore in their pockets , only credit\debit cards .
Yes Poker I think you are right.